I interviewed my friend Caelin Araven, author of Eco Mofos modules Cathedral of Hope, The Deluxo Waste and Continent Kimera. He was sharing some interesting thoughts on the "weird" in fiction so I interviewed him about it.
David Jackson: Hi Caelin, thanks for joining me in this interview. So, were going to be working on an Eco Mofos collaborative project together and one of the themes of Eco Mofos is "weirdhope." For the interview we’re going to do a theme of weirdhope also. So yeah just to start off with can you introduce yourself as a writer and talk about your interests and your writers journey that made you what you are now.
Caelin Araven: Yes, so I'm Caelin Araven. I'm I guess the biggest third party writer of Eco Mofos at the moment. I’ve published a number of small modules for Eco Mofos, also for smaller indie games. For me I feel about the journey that brought me here, I feel that my life is kind of culminating to Eco Mofos and even something beyond that that I haven't reached yet. I started writing when I was 16 which is now around 20 years ago. I started Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition in 2011 but I gave Dungeons & Dragons up because someone was toxic in my group, and I didn't play for 5 more years. But back in 2017 I found a pathfinder group and I started homebrewing and GMing. And finally found my way into the homebrewing community and then through there into indie RPGs. I joined a game jam, got into the Lost Bay server, and from there I found the Eco Mofos game jam before Eco Mofos was published, and decided to back the Kickstarter and write for Eco Mofos.
DJ: So you also wrote some fiction. You wrote a novel right?
CA: Yeah I started writing poetry and short stories. But in 2016 I wrote a novel. But all of my proof readers didn't read it in the end and I got very depressed, and that's actually how I came to the Pathfinder group. Because I wanted some feedback that was instant and I wanted to look people in the face and see what they thought about my story telling.
DJ: Thanks for sharing that. So you're also currently planning a few projects including possibly a crowdfunding project, although I think that's sort of up in the air. Is there anything you want to share about that stuff?
CA: The crowdfunding is up in the air at the moment. I recently got some money that allows me to not do the crowdfunding. But the idea behind it was that I redo the layout of all my zines into kind of a brand layout of Caelin, still recognizable as an Eco Mofos zine, but also recognizable that I wrote it. And for that, with the money I wanted to make a distribution point at my house so I could print the zine and have them sent all over the world.
DJ: Um how would you print them, are there local printers in your area?
CA: Yeah, I got a contact with an anarchist print shop, which prints for donations. So you dont have to pay at all, but they expect you to pay the cost of the ink and the paper.
DJ: That's actually super cool, what's the name of that printer?
CA: An old friend of mine. It’s um Paper Jam.
DJ: That's awesome.
CA: Yeah.
DJ: Ok so the first "weird" question, or the big "weird" question. At some point you mentioned recently, that you don't know what the word weird means or what weird is, which I thought was super interesting. And um, I know you've been thinking about it a bit and exploring. So, can you tell me now, what is weird?
CA: Yeah um. I think its ultimately very subjective what weird is, but the weird I was looking for in that sense when I said I don't know what weird means, is kind of I feel a narrow point on the spectrum, between the unknown, wonder, and the mundane and known. And what I’m missing mostly is wonder in my writings.
DJ: So it has all those things or its somewhere between them?
CA: Yeah its a way inbetween yeah. I think there's a bit of all those four: unknown, known, wonder and mundane, is needed, but in the end it leans towards wonder and unknown where you find the sweet spot of the amazing feeling of weird that I’m looking for.
DJ: How did you get to those four?
CA: Yeah I was thinking of all that I dont like about my writing. And I think it is that I always overexplain everything. Because I’m both writing fiction but also writing kind of a rule book for GMs when I make a module, so I’m over explaining my worlds a little bit. And I feel, that yeah, lets see, so yeah the unknown was missing a bit, but also I don't get the feeling of wonder because I know what's behind everything that's happening in my worlds.
DJ: I see. That's an interesting point, there's a relationship or tension between usability and I guess the poetry of weirdness. I feel like weird can be explained, though, I can imagine, I guess it would be nonsensical explanations. I feel like I’ve seen really dense weird information being conveyed but actually the information doesn't make sense. Or it's alluding to something you don't understand. So yeah it still does capture that in between point.
CA: Yeah you need a frame of reference to get what you don't understand also.
DJ: Yeah I like that the mundane has to be there also. It reminds me of, also, have you heard of the uncanny valley? (note from David: the Uncanny Valley is a theory that zombies and androids look unsettling to us because they are close to normal humans, but slightly off.)
CA: That's how I got to this theory.
DJ: Yeah. It's what’s familiar, but feels just a little bit off.
CA: So there are some pretty well known writers and I guess some old fiction that influenced role playing games and you know modern writers, and even people within role playing games who write weird stuff. Some examples we've talked about are HP Lovecraft, right, one of the main creators of cosmic horror and the weird as an idea. And within the OSR, I think Patrick Stewart, his Deep Carbon Observatory is super weird. So does that canonical weird fantasy description, does that fit to your description of weird?
DJ: I feel Lovecraft at least does a lot. I feel what Lovecraft does really well is that the protagonist and the reader are on the same journey of discovering the weird at the same time. So they discover pieces of wonder and unknown. Yeah piece by piece. It's also the same journey that happens with the protagonist and the reader in their heads and I really like it. And I’m a big fan of Patrick Stewart and Fire on the Velvet Horizon and Veins of the Earth and have been a massive fan ever since I got the books. I feel the monsters in Fire on the Velvet horizon are really weird, yes. And they really evoke a sense of wonder in me, something that I wouldn't have gotten without the book. It's something that I really want to achieve one day in my writings
DJ: I know I feel like I’ve seen Fire on the Velvet Horizon, but I haven't read it so I don't know it that well. Can you give me an example of something?
CA: There's something, um there's a I feel it's kind of a slug man. But he goes into towns and he can't be harmed by anything except violence by law. So he tries to stay inside the law, but also tries to change the law, so that he has more chances to rule society.
DJ: That's a good one. Is there another OSR author that you consider weird?
CA: Well talking about Eco Mofos, that of course has the weird in it. I really like how David Blandy uses the tables to limit the explanation of the world. So you get a lot of freedom to interpret the world and the weird itself.
DJ: Yeah that's a cool thing about it too, because I guess the weird is an inbetween point it leaves room for the reader, like you were saying like Lovecraft does, for the reader to imprint their own fears onto these things. So, I guess the weird is also related to um fear a little bit and bad things in society right, like bigotry. The weird has been discussed in that context a little bit by some philosophers, like Kristeva who I think you know. Even Lovecraft, right, he was notoriously very racist, so his weird is also that. So, how does that aspect of the weird affect your writing and your understanding?
CA: Yeah I feel it kind of falls into the same categories as the unknown and the mundane and wonder. Maybe this is then a negative connotation of wonder. Um, but I feel it's still the same idea. You've got the mundane, the normal life, and then you've got what exposes it, that it is mundane. Because it's unknown for the people that are living it. So for example in Eco Mofos, you've got the magic from the Punks, and a lot of Wasters don't like magic, I feel in the universe as David once explained. So the wasters are the mundane and the punks are the weird, and the magic is the unknown. So yeah. I feel it's the same tension that's happening in the others.
DJ: Yeah, I think so. What is wondrous for the Punks, is scary for the Wasters and those are both two sides of wonder. That's interesting… Yeah there's a lot to think about with that one. So, last question, so the flip side, we've mentioned the weirdhope aesthetic which is associated with Eco Mofos. Which is, I think, a very interesting aesthetic that combines the weird with some hopefulness like the wondrous fantastic post-apocalyptic world of Eco Mofos. So, what about hope? Not just as a fictional device, but also in people in communities who are making and playing games together.
CA: I think hope is very important in our world. I think there's a lot more hope in the world than we usually see. And I think it's important to expose that so that other people also become hopeful in what they are doing about the future of the world. In our games I think we can give out a really strong message of hope, kind of also mimic the world a bit to show that in Eco Mofos. That life goes on and there's always room to grow and build a world that is better for everyone. And what I want to say is that I really like the community of Copy/Paste co-op and because a lot of us write modules for Eco Mofos and other games, but David Blandy and Daniel Locke, have given a lot of us the opportunity to also publish our modules with them. Which I feel is also an expression of hope, because it's very difficult to publish modules on your own, and this way it lifts someone up, gives a spotlight. It's important I feel. It's something if I ever write my own game I want to continue also.
DJ: Yeah I think hope is an expression of a lot of things, including giving and sharing reflects a hope that you can impact the world in a positive way. If you are negative or nihilistic, you don't have any hope that anything you do will change things so you don't give or share. So, I guess do you have any final thoughts or comments?
CA: Not really, it was nice to have this interview, I’m excited to read it.
DJ: Yeah thank you!
